Thoughts on the Multiplier Increase from 2.0 to 3.0 and removal of the schools being bumped into 7A
10/05/2021 11:15:07 AM
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Proposal to increase the multiplier from the current 2.0 to 3.0 to account for students residing outside the designated attendance zone for all member schools. (Vote: 14-5) MOTION PASSED (56-15-3) Roll call vote No. 1: Yes - McPherson, Horton, Moody, Shaddix, Sebring, N. Turner, Barton, Grantham, Brett, Waters, M. Jackson, Green, Baker, Craft, McDonald, Dean, Ratliff, May, Smith, Brewington, R. Jackson, Black, Littleton, Whitlock, M. Shiver, C. Battles, Jewell, W. Shiver, Peek, Finch, Connelly, J. Jackson, Mashburn, Wagner, Connell, Edwards, Thompson, Lassiter, Newton, B. Montgomery, Hurst, B. Turner, Morrell, Crews, Warren, Norton, Langston, Simpson, Ellison, R. Montgomery, Colvard, J. Miller, Brown, Davis, White, C. Miller. No - Breedlove, Demastus, J. Battles, Dowis, Sanders, Calhoun, Farriba, Queen, Jones, Hanson, Dehem, Lowery, Jordan, Petroski, Marshall. Abstain - Russell, Drew, Sanfilippo.) Proposal to remove the part of by-law 4.23-b that prevents schools from being bumped up into Class 7A because of the application of the multiplier while keeping the prohibition on schools being bumped out of Class 1A. (Vote: 15-4) MOTION PASSED (66-8) (Voting No - Demastus, Dehem, Jones, Marshall, Farriba, Hanson, Queen, Petroski.)
Proposal to increase the multiplier from the current 2.0 to 3.0 to account for students residing outside the designated
attendance zone for all member schools. (Vote: 14-5)
MOTION PASSED (56-15-3) Roll call vote No. 1: Yes - McPherson, Horton, Moody, Shaddix, Sebring, N. Turner, Barton,
Grantham, Brett, Waters, M. Jackson, Green, Baker, Craft, McDonald, Dean, Ratliff, May, Smith, Brewington, R. Jackson, Black,
Littleton, Whitlock, M. Shiver, C. Battles, Jewell, W. Shiver, Peek, Finch, Connelly, J. Jackson, Mashburn, Wagner, Connell,
Edwards, Thompson, Lassiter, Newton, B. Montgomery, Hurst, B. Turner, Morrell, Crews, Warren, Norton, Langston, Simpson,
Ellison, R. Montgomery, Colvard, J. Miller, Brown, Davis, White, C. Miller. No - Breedlove, Demastus, J. Battles, Dowis, Sanders,
Calhoun, Farriba, Queen, Jones, Hanson, Dehem, Lowery, Jordan, Petroski, Marshall. Abstain - Russell, Drew, Sanfilippo.)

Proposal to remove the part of by-law 4.23-b that prevents schools from being bumped up into Class 7A because of the
application of the multiplier while keeping the prohibition on schools being bumped out of Class 1A. (Vote: 15-4)
MOTION PASSED (66-8) (Voting No - Demastus, Dehem, Jones, Marshall, Farriba, Hanson, Queen, Petroski.)
10/05/2021 12:15:51 PM
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I will be very curious to see how it all shakes out once schools are placed and then appeal their placement. From my quick calculations, it looks like St. Pius moves up to 7A, BT moves to 6A or 7A and Marist moves to 6A. I think in our sport all these schools would still be very competitive. However, with sports like football, it is going to be a lot harder to compete. S/O Coach Sorrells for starting this thread as I am very curious to get the perspectives of other coaches who are in different coaching scenarios.
I will be very curious to see how it all shakes out once schools are placed and then appeal their placement.

From my quick calculations, it looks like St. Pius moves up to 7A, BT moves to 6A or 7A and Marist moves to 6A. I think in our sport all these schools would still be very competitive. However, with sports like football, it is going to be a lot harder to compete.

S/O Coach Sorrells for starting this thread as I am very curious to get the perspectives of other coaches who are in different coaching scenarios.
10/05/2021 1:00:03 PM
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Don't forget several others who would be forced up: -Carrollton, Buford, Cartersville, Rome, Decatur, Woodward, Chamblee, Riverwood, and maybe a couple others would all move to 7A too I think. Maybe 6A for a couple as I don't know the exact numbers. -Westminster, GAC, and Jefferson would also be 6A. -Lovett and Pace would be at least 5A if not 6A as well.
Don't forget several others who would be forced up:
-Carrollton, Buford, Cartersville, Rome, Decatur, Woodward, Chamblee, Riverwood, and maybe a couple others would all move to 7A too I think. Maybe 6A for a couple as I don't know the exact numbers.
-Westminster, GAC, and Jefferson would also be 6A.
-Lovett and Pace would be at least 5A if not 6A as well.
10/05/2021 1:11:54 PM
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Let's not forget that schools can appeal. By my calculations 17 of 24 schools that appealed the last reclassification cycle "WON" their appeal. So does it really change the landscape that much if 70% win their appeal.
Let's not forget that schools can appeal. By my calculations 17 of 24 schools that appealed the last reclassification cycle "WON" their appeal. So does it really change the landscape that much if 70% win their appeal.
10/05/2021 1:18:50 PM
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[quote=spxcoachrm]Don't forget several others who would be forced up: -Carrollton, Buford, Cartersville, Rome, Decatur, Woodward, Chamblee, Riverwood, and maybe a couple others would all move to 7A too I think. Maybe 6A for a couple as I don't know the exact numbers. -Westminster, GAC, and Jefferson would also be 6A. -Lovett and Pace would be at least 5A if not 6A as well. [/quote] good points! I wonder if they would then expand 7A or keep it at the top 48
spxcoachrm wrote:
Don't forget several others who would be forced up:
-Carrollton, Buford, Cartersville, Rome, Decatur, Woodward, Chamblee, Riverwood, and maybe a couple others would all move to 7A too I think. Maybe 6A for a couple as I don't know the exact numbers.
-Westminster, GAC, and Jefferson would also be 6A.
-Lovett and Pace would be at least 5A if not 6A as well.



good points! I wonder if they would then expand 7A or keep it at the top 48
10/05/2021 1:28:34 PM
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Would this force GHSA to reevaluate having 7 (8) classifications?
Would this force GHSA to reevaluate having 7 (8) classifications?
10/05/2021 1:29:44 PM
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Would this force GHSA to reevaluate having 7 (8) classifications?
Would this force GHSA to reevaluate having 7 (8) classifications?
10/06/2021 12:03:22 PM
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[url=https://www.ajc.com/sports/high-school-sports-blog/projecting-reclassification-where-ghsa-schools-might-fall/DIHXDVMXVNEOVORL6OGNGEXB5M/]AJC Projections[/url] The projections from AJC. The interesting part to me was how many non private and non city schools have "out of district students". The number of athletes in the school vs the number of athletes who will actually be able to participate in sports ([b]eligibility, complete physical, ability to attend practice daily, afford team fees, transportation to practice, insurance requirements[/b]) are totally different numbers. Some 7A schools may only have a pool of 750 potential athletes once all factors are taken in to account. At the end of the day the whining over enrollment numbers just makes people feel better for not competing.
AJC Projections

The projections from AJC. The interesting part to me was how many non private and non city schools have "out of district students".

The number of athletes in the school vs the number of athletes who will actually be able to participate in sports (eligibility, complete physical, ability to attend practice daily, afford team fees, transportation to practice, insurance requirements) are totally different numbers. Some 7A schools may only have a pool of 750 potential athletes once all factors are taken in to account.

At the end of the day the whining over enrollment numbers just makes people feel better for not competing.
10/06/2021 12:44:45 PM
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@BlackJack31 I think it is important to note the number of out of district students and the number of those students who compete in a sport. I could see an argument where the multiplier would only count for students who are out of district AND compete in a sport. An example is Kennesaw Mtn who has a Magnet program. So their out of district numbers will be higher, but how many of those students participate in sports? And if they do not participate in sports should they count towards the sport classification placement?
@BlackJack31
I think it is important to note the number of out of district students and the number of those students who compete in a sport. I could see an argument where the multiplier would only count for students who are out of district AND compete in a sport.

An example is Kennesaw Mtn who has a Magnet program. So their out of district numbers will be higher, but how many of those students participate in sports? And if they do not participate in sports should they count towards the sport classification placement?
10/06/2021 1:18:30 PM
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@runtad It should count because the school has a larger pool of students to pull from for athletics. If the students do not choose to participate then a school shouldn't be allowed to move down.
@runtad

It should count because the school has a larger pool of students to pull from for athletics. If the students do not choose to participate then a school shouldn't be allowed to move down.
10/06/2021 1:18:41 PM
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@runtad It should count because the school has a larger pool of students to pull from for athletics. If the students do not choose to participate then a school shouldn't be allowed to move down.
@runtad

It should count because the school has a larger pool of students to pull from for athletics. If the students do not choose to participate then a school shouldn't be allowed to move down.
10/06/2021 2:42:15 PM
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A couple of probing questions I have in regards to certain criteria on a blankent multiplier for sports. We have enough students who attend our school to lift our numbers to 7A. But we did evaluate each one of those students' participation in extracurriculars. Only 38% of those students participate in extracurricular. I keep using that term because several of those students participate in our band, theatre, and debate program. But 62% of our out-of-district students come to our school simply because they want a better school environment than the district they would attend. But those students are being multiplied as well. Within some systems...school of choice criteria exist. A student from school A isn't comfortable with the rigor of classes he or she is getting, feels unsafe, or there is a particular program offered at another school B within district...ROTC or IB. This student never set foots on a court, throws a pass on the field, or runs a 100 meter dash. Yet, he or she is magically 3 students participating in a sport according to GHSA and the principal who proposed this option. Finally, it is my understanding that having a multiplier is not an absurd thought...several states have it. But the prinicpal who proposed it chose a number that is more than twice any other mulitplier in the nation. Where is the logical sense that one student is actually equal to 3 students? Was there an algorithm used to arrive at this number? Or was it a number that satisfied a personal desire to remove a certain number of schools from that principal's classification so success could be achieved in sports? Are we in the business of creating advantages for sports or are we in the business of edcuating students for the rest of their lives?
A couple of probing questions I have in regards to certain criteria on a blankent multiplier for sports. We have enough students who attend our school to lift our numbers to 7A. But we did evaluate each one of those students' participation in extracurriculars. Only 38% of those students participate in extracurricular. I keep using that term because several of those students participate in our band, theatre, and debate program. But 62% of our out-of-district students come to our school simply because they want a better school environment than the district they would attend. But those students are being multiplied as well.
Within some systems...school of choice criteria exist. A student from school A isn't comfortable with the rigor of classes he or she is getting, feels unsafe, or there is a particular program offered at another school B within district...ROTC or IB. This student never set foots on a court, throws a pass on the field, or runs a 100 meter dash. Yet, he or she is magically 3 students participating in a sport according to GHSA and the principal who proposed this option.
Finally, it is my understanding that having a multiplier is not an absurd thought...several states have it. But the prinicpal who proposed it chose a number that is more than twice any other mulitplier in the nation. Where is the logical sense that one student is actually equal to 3 students? Was there an algorithm used to arrive at this number? Or was it a number that satisfied a personal desire to remove a certain number of schools from that principal's classification so success could be achieved in sports? Are we in the business of creating advantages for sports or are we in the business of edcuating students for the rest of their lives?
10/06/2021 6:22:16 PM
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@Sorrells28 How about we just have 2 classes and go at it. Single A and all the rest. Indiana goes with 1 class for XC. Good Luck and sorry about the "Competitive disadvantage". Guess it's time to get to work and do your job instead of asking GHSA to help you out. Every school has advantages and disadvantages. Use your advantages and overcome the disadvantages.
@Sorrells28

How about we just have 2 classes and go at it. Single A and all the rest. Indiana goes with 1 class for XC. Good Luck and sorry about the "Competitive disadvantage". Guess it's time to get to work and do your job instead of asking GHSA to help you out. Every school has advantages and disadvantages. Use your advantages and overcome the disadvantages.
10/06/2021 6:58:36 PM
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[url=https://www.ghsa.net/sites/default/files/documents/executive-committee/Copy_of_15_and_Multiplier-1.pdf]Copy_of_15_and_Multiplier-1.pdf[/url] This is the document that was presented to the executive committee that had resounding evidence to carry through a whole number multipler of 3.0. The 3.0 multiplier was specifically targeting any school that had more than 25% of their school population that was out of their district. This didn't dislcose what those kids did at that school or why they were there. I guess the assumption is they are there to win State Titles in GHSA competition. And because that is why they are there, they are going to count as 3 whole students instead of the one student they really are. Jack, I am not afraid of competition and I don't coach to win titles. Like you, I am whole-heartedly in it for the love of the sport and building lasting relationships with athletes. 99% of all athletes in high school sports will not continue in their sport after graduation. But for some reason it seems that we are going to punish those who are simply trying to better themselves by choosing a school they wish to attend to do so. Why does a parent send their child to a private school when they could afford it versus a public school. Because they believe it is a better opportunity for them. If they have the means, so be it. Because you don't have the means doesn't mean you are less capable of being successful. Ironically, the principal that made this proposal is at my alma mater. Their education was good enough for me to be successful as an athlete, father, husband, teacher and coach.
Copy_of_15_and_Multiplier-1.pdf

This is the document that was presented to the executive committee that had resounding evidence to carry through a whole number multipler of 3.0. The 3.0 multiplier was specifically targeting any school that had more than 25% of their school population that was out of their district. This didn't dislcose what those kids did at that school or why they were there. I guess the assumption is they are there to win State Titles in GHSA competition. And because that is why they are there, they are going to count as 3 whole students instead of the one student they really are.

Jack, I am not afraid of competition and I don't coach to win titles. Like you, I am whole-heartedly in it for the love of the sport and building lasting relationships with athletes. 99% of all athletes in high school sports will not continue in their sport after graduation. But for some reason it seems that we are going to punish those who are simply trying to better themselves by choosing a school they wish to attend to do so. Why does a parent send their child to a private school when they could afford it versus a public school. Because they believe it is a better opportunity for them. If they have the means, so be it. Because you don't have the means doesn't mean you are less capable of being successful. Ironically, the principal that made this proposal is at my alma mater. Their education was good enough for me to be successful as an athlete, father, husband, teacher and coach.
10/06/2021 7:54:48 PM
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@Sorrells28 I am calling out the people trying to "balance the competition" which in reality is impossible to do so everyone is treated "fairly".
@Sorrells28
I am calling out the people trying to "balance the competition" which in reality is impossible to do so everyone is treated "fairly".
10/06/2021 8:45:23 PM
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I just thought of a GREAT new spin for movies like Hoosiers & MacFarland USA. Instead of the small Indiana basketball & California XC teams working hard and beating the "big guys", they file a petition with their state associations to get the big guys moved to a different class or split their states into 8 different classes and win that way. It's Oscar-worthy, I tell 'ya!
I just thought of a GREAT new spin for movies like Hoosiers & MacFarland USA. Instead of the small Indiana basketball & California XC teams working hard and beating the "big guys", they file a petition with their state associations to get the big guys moved to a different class or split their states into 8 different classes and win that way. It's Oscar-worthy, I tell 'ya!
10/06/2021 8:45:33 PM
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I just thought of a GREAT new spin for movies like Hoosiers & MacFarland USA. Instead of the small Indiana basketball & California XC teams working hard and beating the "big guys", they file a petition with their state associations to get the big guys moved to a different class or split their states into 8 different classes and win that way. It's Oscar-worthy, I tell 'ya!
I just thought of a GREAT new spin for movies like Hoosiers & MacFarland USA. Instead of the small Indiana basketball & California XC teams working hard and beating the "big guys", they file a petition with their state associations to get the big guys moved to a different class or split their states into 8 different classes and win that way. It's Oscar-worthy, I tell 'ya!
10/07/2021 9:27:52 AM
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@gacarter I am sure the movie would be a rallying call to all the "underdogs". I have a couple of title choices... 1) Pursuit of Mediocrity 2) Remember the Averages 3) Chariots of LukeWarm Flame
@gacarter

I am sure the movie would be a rallying call to all the "underdogs". I have a couple of title choices...
1) Pursuit of Mediocrity
2) Remember the Averages
3) Chariots of LukeWarm Flame
10/07/2021 12:19:41 PM
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@Sorrells28 I love it. I thought of another one: "Rudy the Stickler". Instead of Rudy repeatedly trying out for the Notre Dame football team to get in for that one play giving inspiration to people everywhere, he gets the NCAA to say that men taller than 5'6" are ineligible in Division I and BOOM - Rudy wins the Heisman!
@Sorrells28 I love it. I thought of another one: "Rudy the Stickler". Instead of Rudy repeatedly trying out for the Notre Dame football team to get in for that one play giving inspiration to people everywhere, he gets the NCAA to say that men taller than 5'6" are ineligible in Division I and BOOM - Rudy wins the Heisman!
10/07/2021 2:49:22 PM
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Out of curiosity, what is considered "Out of District" for a private school? Is it based on distance of the student's residence from the school?
Out of curiosity, what is considered "Out of District" for a private school? Is it based on distance of the student's residence from the school?

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