Region Scoreboard Updated
10/24/2020 4:55:32 PM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2899
[url=https://ga.milesplit.com/articles/288088-2020-georgia-region-madness-results-scoreboard]Region Madness Scoreboard[/url]
10/24/2020 5:31:58 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3
Hi, is there a precedent for the situation with the Region 5-AAAAA meet today where Clarkston ran with 10 varsity boys runners instead of the 7 specified in the rules? Here is what the GHSA rule says " C. Cross Country rosters should list twelve (12) contestants. No replacements may be made in the list submitted to the Region Meet Director. Any [b]seven (7)[/b] of the twelve (12) may run in the Region or State."? [url=https://ga.milesplit.com/meets/397875-region-5-aaaaa-meet-2020/results/710738/raw#.X5SZRNBKiUk]https://ga.milesplit.com/meets/397875-region-5-aaaaa-meet-2020/results/710738/raw#.X5SZRNBKiUk[/url]
Hi, is there a precedent for the situation with the Region 5-AAAAA meet today where Clarkston ran with 10 varsity boys runners instead of the 7 specified in the rules? Here is what the GHSA rule says " C. Cross Country rosters should list twelve (12) contestants. No replacements may be made in the list submitted to the Region Meet Director. Any seven (7) of the twelve (12) may run in the Region or State."?

https://ga.milesplit.com/meets/397875-region-5-aaaaa-meet-2020/results/710738/raw#.X5SZRNBKiUk
10/24/2020 5:46:57 PM
Power User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 617
Region 3-AAAAAAA has been postponed due to weather until Monday 10/26 3:00pm JV Girls 3:45pm JV Boys 4:30pm Var Girls 5:10pm Var Boys Spectators WILL NOT be charged for parking again.
Region 3-AAAAAAA has been postponed due to weather until Monday 10/26

3:00pm JV Girls
3:45pm JV Boys
4:30pm Var Girls
5:10pm Var Boys

Spectators WILL NOT be charged for parking again.
10/24/2020 6:14:58 PM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2899
@1535502612 an interesting question. Any answers out there? It is a rule, spoke with someone that would know. I took a look at Clarkston's results from the DeKalb County championships, and they were reflective of how their runners finished in order at Region. Their 8-10 runners were not a factor at region.
@1535502612 an interesting question. Any answers out there? It is a rule, spoke with someone that would know. I took a look at Clarkston's results from the DeKalb County championships, and they were reflective of how their runners finished in order at Region. Their 8-10 runners were not a factor at region.
10/24/2020 8:18:43 PM
Power User
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 2
@gawebmaster -- this happened a few years back where a first year coach ran 10 (If I remember correctly on the number) in Varsity Boys at Region. Officials checked off 7 boys at line for uniforms, jewelry, etc. It isn't uncommon for teammates to stand behind the start line or near them before the race so nothing was thought of it. Once race was over we realized there were 10 entries for that school, 3 of which were registered for JV Boys. It was brought before appeals committee of coaches and the entire situation explained. I chalked it up to an honest mistake (although they were only allowed to enter 7 on MileSplit reg.). The argument was made if their expected #9 suddenly became their #5 that day, it gave them an unfair advantage. The team as it stood placed 4th qualifying for state meet. The committee of coaches ruled to disqualify for unfair advantage.
@gawebmaster -- this happened a few years back where a first year coach ran 10 (If I remember correctly on the number) in Varsity Boys at Region. Officials checked off 7 boys at line for uniforms, jewelry, etc. It isn't uncommon for teammates to stand behind the start line or near them before the race so nothing was thought of it. Once race was over we realized there were 10 entries for that school, 3 of which were registered for JV Boys. It was brought before appeals committee of coaches and the entire situation explained. I chalked it up to an honest mistake (although they were only allowed to enter 7 on MileSplit reg.). The argument was made if their expected #9 suddenly became their #5 that day, it gave them an unfair advantage. The team as it stood placed 4th qualifying for state meet. The committee of coaches ruled to disqualify for unfair advantage.
10/25/2020 8:13:27 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 91
Looks like any races on Wed. and Thursday in West Central to the Northeastern part of the state are going to be wet at the very best. Might be some stormy, windy weather also. Should be fun!!
Looks like any races on Wed. and Thursday in West Central to the Northeastern part of the state are going to be wet at the very best. Might be some stormy, windy weather also. Should be fun!!
10/26/2020 7:24:05 AM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3
@gawebmaster and @RaceWorks - thank you for your responses! This issue is going to be voted on by a committee of the region AD's in the next day or so. Tough decision for all involved as it will determine which team goes to State. No doubt the dynamics of the race were changed on this very narrow course with an extra 3 runners for one team. @RaceWroks - Do you happen to remember the name of the team and the year referenced above?
@gawebmaster and @RaceWorks - thank you for your responses! This issue is going to be voted on by a committee of the region AD's in the next day or so. Tough decision for all involved as it will determine which team goes to State. No doubt the dynamics of the race were changed on this very narrow course with an extra 3 runners for one team.

@RaceWroks - Do you happen to remember the name of the team and the year referenced above?
10/26/2020 7:40:04 AM
Power User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1024
For the record, we did call the GHSA XC rep and he basically said "it's up to your region to decide, figure it out yourselves." I'm glad this decision goes to people who are above me. I certainly believe that you should always follow the rules and follow through with enforcing the rules. I'm definitely a stickler for that. But if that's what ends up happening, then my heart breaks for the kids who are on the 3rd best team in the region who likely would have made a run at top 10 in the state. They would have to miss out because a 1st year head coach made what appears to be an honest mistake in a year when their school isn't even open for in person education yet. I can't imagine how confusing that job must be to do, when you don't even get to go talk to your AD in person and clear things up to make sure you're doing them correctly. I know we all took the rules clinic online, but I think we can all agree GHSA didn't even bother trying to make that easy on a first year head coach to understand all of the rules and procedures.
For the record, we did call the GHSA XC rep and he basically said "it's up to your region to decide, figure it out yourselves."

I'm glad this decision goes to people who are above me. I certainly believe that you should always follow the rules and follow through with enforcing the rules. I'm definitely a stickler for that. But if that's what ends up happening, then my heart breaks for the kids who are on the 3rd best team in the region who likely would have made a run at top 10 in the state. They would have to miss out because a 1st year head coach made what appears to be an honest mistake in a year when their school isn't even open for in person education yet. I can't imagine how confusing that job must be to do, when you don't even get to go talk to your AD in person and clear things up to make sure you're doing them correctly. I know we all took the rules clinic online, but I think we can all agree GHSA didn't even bother trying to make that easy on a first year head coach to understand all of the rules and procedures.
10/26/2020 9:16:06 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 20
@spxcoachrm You couldn’t be more right coach. There is also the added confusion of me directors, myself included, sometimes allowing more than seven competitors in a varsity race. It certainly makes it difficult on a first year coach.
@spxcoachrm

You couldn't be more right coach.

There is also the added confusion of me directors, myself included, sometimes allowing more than seven competitors in a varsity race. It certainly makes it difficult on a first year coach.
10/31/2020 3:27:59 AM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2899
@1535502612 per a Region vote, Clarkston was DQ'd as a team.
@1535502612 per a Region vote, Clarkston was DQ'd as a team.
10/31/2020 7:43:39 AM
Power User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 231
Don’t have a dog in this fight, but ... Running 7 is a very clear rule and essential piece of our sport. 10 gives a potential advantage that cannot be denied. Must result in full team DQ. That doesn’t make it any easier, if you’re a decent human being your heart absolutely goes out to the kids, coaches, families.
Don't have a dog in this fight, but ...

Running 7 is a very clear rule and essential piece of our sport. 10 gives a potential advantage that cannot be denied.

Must result in full team DQ.

That doesn't make it any easier, if you're a decent human being your heart absolutely goes out to the kids, coaches, families.
11/01/2020 6:18:08 AM
Power User
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 202
So in 7A we have 32 boy teams qualify and 11 get eliminated (74% advance) 8 teams advance simply by showing up. 30 girl teams qualify and 7 get eliminated (81% advance) 18 teams advanced simply by showing up. I will cringe when at state that blanket congratulatory statement is made to the field before the race, this qualifying system needs to be fixed. Also, does this happen in the other classifications?
So in 7A we have 32 boy teams qualify and 11 get eliminated (74% advance)
8 teams advance simply by showing up.

30 girl teams qualify and 7 get eliminated (81% advance)
18 teams advanced simply by showing up.

I will cringe when at state that blanket congratulatory statement is made to the field before the race, this qualifying system needs to be fixed.

Also, does this happen in the other classifications?
11/01/2020 10:42:29 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 437
@8MileGoat Yes it does, sadly, I don't have the stats for all, but it probably very similar to 7A in some classes. Especially the just showing up aspect. We need to have a sectional meet. GHSA loves regions, that's fine, at least the sectional would insure the teams that made it deserved it.
@8MileGoat Yes it does, sadly, I don't have the stats for all, but it probably very similar to 7A in some classes. Especially the just showing up aspect. We need to have a sectional meet. GHSA loves regions, that's fine, at least the sectional would insure the teams that made it deserved it.
11/01/2020 3:45:47 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 36
@8MileGoat Here is a brief breakdown of 2A girls... - 28 Teams Qualify in a possible 32 positions - Regions 1,2,3, and 7 all had a full 4 teams qualify - Regions 4,5,6, and 8 only had 3 teams qualify from each region - 6 Teams had team averages of 30 minutes or more. #1 Qualifying Team Average (19:59)and #28 Qualifying Team Average (42:24) In my opinion the difference in the these two teams does not do the State Meet justice. My Take on Qualifying... [b]Option #1[/b] Regionals - Top 4 Advance to 2 Sectionals (North/South or East/West) Sectionals -Top 8 from each sectional advance to State (16) * All teams must advance each round [b]Option #2[/b] Regionals - #1 and #2 Advance State, #3 & #4 move to Sectionals Sectionals - Top 8 teams from 1 sectional advance to State * Provides better representation from across different parts of the state * Rewards Region Champs and Runners-Ups with a bye week.
@8MileGoat

Here is a brief breakdown of 2A girls...
* 28 Teams Qualify in a possible 32 positions

* Regions 1,2,3, and 7 all had a full 4 teams qualify

* Regions 4,5,6, and 8 only had 3 teams qualify from each region

* 6 Teams had team averages of 30 minutes or more.


#1 Qualifying Team Average (19:59)and #28 Qualifying Team Average (42:24)
In my opinion the difference in the these two teams does not do the State Meet justice.

My Take on Qualifying...

Option #1
Regionals - Top 4 Advance to 2 Sectionals (North/South or East/West)
Sectionals -Top 8 from each sectional advance to State (16)
* All teams must advance each round


Option #2
Regionals - #1 and #2 Advance State, #3 & #4 move to Sectionals
Sectionals - Top 8 teams from 1 sectional advance to State
* Provides better representation from across different parts of the state

* Rewards Region Champs and Runners-Ups with a bye week.
11/01/2020 5:24:56 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 642
This year's results shouldn't necessarily be used to argue for or against Sectionals without comparing to previous years. Schools that normally field teams didn't this year due to low numbers of participants because of Covid. I have no idea if the number of schools in that situation is big or small (there was at least one girls team in our region). But, the number of regions with a full compliment of teams this year should be compared to that of last year (except 7A - which can only use this year) to see if 2020 had any effect before citing regions with four or fewer finishing teams. Even four teams in a region isn't enough, as you should have to at least beat SOMEBODY to make it to State. And, there are myriad other reasons for Sectionals. But, we should definitely also look at results from non-2020 years before citing regions with four or fewer teams.
This year's results shouldn't necessarily be used to argue for or against Sectionals without comparing to previous years. Schools that normally field teams didn't this year due to low numbers of participants because of Covid. I have no idea if the number of schools in that situation is big or small (there was at least one girls team in our region). But, the number of regions with a full compliment of teams this year should be compared to that of last year (except 7A - which can only use this year) to see if 2020 had any effect before citing regions with four or fewer finishing teams.

Even four teams in a region isn't enough, as you should have to at least beat SOMEBODY to make it to State. And, there are myriad other reasons for Sectionals. But, we should definitely also look at results from non-2020 years before citing regions with four or fewer teams.
11/01/2020 6:54:46 PM
Admin
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 959
@StateChamp17 We used this 2002-2004 and is my choice: Option #2 Regionals - #1 and #2 Advance State, #3 & #4 move to Sectionals Sectionals - Top 8 teams from 1 sectional advance to State * Provides better representation from across different parts of the state * Rewards Region Champs and Runners-Ups with a bye week. 40-minute team average is not state-meet worthy, sorry. 7A has some regions with LESS than 4 teams at their region meet, so jog it and qualify and GREAT teams & programs like Gainesville sit at home, all schools in 7A over 2500 students should be able to field a team, there are budgets in place at those schools for the coaches.... Just my opinion...
@StateChamp17 We used this 2002-2004 and is my choice:
Option #2
Regionals - #1 and #2 Advance State, #3 & #4 move to Sectionals
Sectionals - Top 8 teams from 1 sectional advance to State
* Provides better representation from across different parts of the state

* Rewards Region Champs and Runners-Ups with a bye week.


40-minute team average is not state-meet worthy, sorry.
7A has some regions with LESS than 4 teams at their region meet, so jog it and qualify and GREAT teams & programs like Gainesville sit at home, all schools in 7A over 2500 students should be able to field a team, there are budgets in place at those schools for the coaches....
Just my opinion...
11/01/2020 7:10:41 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 36
@acarr6453 totally agree 40 minute team average or a 40 minute individual time is not acceptable at the State Meet.
@acarr6453 totally agree 40 minute team average or a 40 minute individual time is not acceptable at the State Meet.

You must be logged in to comment.

Click Here to Log In.