Now that the New Classification and Regions are set---this question
12/02/2015 2:30:15 PM
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How are Albany and Jefferson going to handle 8 classifications? How will Carrollton handle 16 state races?
How are Albany and Jefferson going to handle 8 classifications?

How will Carrollton handle 16 state races?
12/02/2015 2:48:58 PM
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Not sure but I know that the coaches association is working on a proposal for XC that would reduce the amount of teams that qualify for State. We will be seeking feedback from coaches all over the state once we get something together. The plan is to offer 3 different options and see what most people are in favor of.
Not sure but I know that the coaches association is working on a proposal for XC that would reduce the amount of teams that qualify for State. We will be seeking feedback from coaches all over the state once we get something together. The plan is to offer 3 different options and see what most people are in favor of.
12/02/2015 2:55:17 PM
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@GoCubs I believe Carrollton has offered two solutions: 1. Go to a 2 day state meet (Virginia is the only other state that does this I believe) 2. Stop any athlete and pull them from the course if they don't finish under 30:00 so they have time for all the races. My guess is GHSA/Carrollton will go with option 1. I can see some 31:00 runners (or more likely their parents) throwing a fit if they get pulled and how it's "unfair" or "embarrassing." Of course then GHSA will probably then create a classification for xc that is only for kids over 30:00 and call them the "30A state champions" I kid. But I think it should tell all of us quite a bit about how much money is involved if they do in fact go with option 1 and a school system decides to have a school holiday on a random Friday...
@GoCubs

I believe Carrollton has offered two solutions:

1. Go to a 2 day state meet (Virginia is the only other state that does this I believe)

2. Stop any athlete and pull them from the course if they don't finish under 30:00 so they have time for all the races.

My guess is GHSA/Carrollton will go with option 1. I can see some 31:00 runners (or more likely their parents) throwing a fit if they get pulled and how it's "unfair" or "embarrassing." Of course then GHSA will probably then create a classification for xc that is only for kids over 30:00 and call them the "30A state champions"

I kid. But I think it should tell all of us quite a bit about how much money is involved if they do in fact go with option 1 and a school system decides to have a school holiday on a random Friday...
12/02/2015 3:39:36 PM
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@GoCubs Are there going to be 8 now or just 7? Looks to me that we now have 7a, 6a, 5a, 4a, 3s, 2a and 1a 1A is really large, but I didn't see any split between 1a public and 1a private like we had before.
@GoCubs Are there going to be 8 now or just 7?

Looks to me that we now have 7a, 6a, 5a, 4a, 3s, 2a and 1a
1A is really large, but I didn't see any split between 1a public and 1a private like we had before.
12/02/2015 3:48:13 PM
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Any chance of having two different venues for State?
Any chance of having two different venues for State?
12/02/2015 3:52:59 PM
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@coachac I'm very excited that our newly formed coach's association is working on a plan that will be in the best interests of our sports and athletes. In cross country, for sure with the new alignment, the old model just doesn't make any sense. 4 teams per region in 7A would deliver 67% of all teams to the state meet and region #1 gets all 4 teams in if they can just field a squad of 5. We need a plan that is geographically inclusive so that GHSA will support it but also works to deliver the best teams to our championship event. I 100% believe that being more restrictive at state is hugely in the best interest of our sport. Bravo for stepping in at this critical juncture and trying to make a difference. 1) Raising the bar always delivers better results versus "everyone gets a trophy". Nearly every state who is very good in cross country has significantly more restrictive entry into the championship meet. Georgia is an anomaly / outlier in our inclusive approach. Sometimes less is more. 2) 32 teams at Carrollton is too crowded for championship racing. It is sad every year to watch kids run faster at Ortho and Last Chance just because they have more room to run and don't spend the first mile playing rock 'em sock 'em robots going out way to fast to establish position than they should blowing up in the last mile. 3) In our old system, we had kids participating in the state meet who walked, who sprinted out the 1st 100M and then started jogging and laughing. Those kinds of athletes do a disservice to our sport and are a hazzard on the course. Our new system must weed this out.
@coachac I'm very excited that our newly formed coach's association is working on a plan that will be in the best interests of our sports and athletes. In cross country, for sure with the new alignment, the old model just doesn't make any sense. 4 teams per region in 7A would deliver 67% of all teams to the state meet and region #1 gets all 4 teams in if they can just field a squad of 5.

We need a plan that is geographically inclusive so that GHSA will support it but also works to deliver the best teams to our championship event.

I 100% believe that being more restrictive at state is hugely in the best interest of our sport. Bravo for stepping in at this critical juncture and trying to make a difference.

1) Raising the bar always delivers better results versus "everyone gets a trophy". Nearly every state who is very good in cross country has significantly more restrictive entry into the championship meet. Georgia is an anomaly / outlier in our inclusive approach. Sometimes less is more.
2) 32 teams at Carrollton is too crowded for championship racing. It is sad every year to watch kids run faster at Ortho and Last Chance just because they have more room to run and don't spend the first mile playing rock 'em sock 'em robots going out way to fast to establish position than they should blowing up in the last mile.
3) In our old system, we had kids participating in the state meet who walked, who sprinted out the 1st 100M and then started jogging and laughing. Those kinds of athletes do a disservice to our sport and are a hazzard on the course. Our new system must weed this out.
12/02/2015 3:59:58 PM
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@spxcoachrm Louisiana has a two-day State XC meet. They have classes C, B , A thru AAAAA (14 races). They run on the Monday and Tuesday (this year Wed due to heavy rain) in the week before Thanksgiving at Northwestern State in Natchitoches. LHSAA doesn't want to work on Saturdays! The State swim meet is that same week W-F, which for the smaller schools often includes many of the same kids. The challenge with Carrollton is that it is an operating elementary school and so a weekday is not likely to be workable unless they take the day off from school. This is actually the same reason that taking the State Track Meet to a school site like Mill Creek is not as simple as if often perceived. tp
@spxcoachrm Louisiana has a two-day State XC meet. They have classes C, B , A thru AAAAA (14 races). They run on the Monday and Tuesday (this year Wed due to heavy rain) in the week before Thanksgiving at Northwestern State in Natchitoches. LHSAA doesn't want to work on Saturdays! The State swim meet is that same week W-F, which for the smaller schools often includes many of the same kids.

The challenge with Carrollton is that it is an operating elementary school and so a weekday is not likely to be workable unless they take the day off from school.

This is actually the same reason that taking the State Track Meet to a school site like Mill Creek is not as simple as if often perceived.

tp
12/02/2015 4:05:00 PM
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I do believe that the plan is to keep Class A split. There are now over 100 schools in the class (87 football) and I think they are planning on 24 each Public and Private for the Power ranking sports. Haven't heard whether that would also mean 24 qualifiers rather than 16 in other sports as well. tp
I do believe that the plan is to keep Class A split. There are now over 100 schools in the class (87 football) and I think they are planning on 24 each Public and Private for the Power ranking sports. Haven't heard whether that would also mean 24 qualifiers rather than 16 in other sports as well.
tp
12/03/2015 7:48:09 AM
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A small nit-pick, but if CC were to follow the football type post season pattern Region 1 7A would not autoqualify all four teams. Three would autoqualify, the fourth would then compete for an at large bid along with all other teams in 7A that did not qualify at their Region events. Again, if we were to follow the football playoffs type set up. [quote=crossfan2861]@coachac I'm very excited that our newly formed coach's association is working on a plan that will be in the best interests of our sports and athletes. In cross country, for sure with the new alignment, the old model just doesn't make any sense. 4 teams per region in 7A would deliver 67% of all teams to the state meet and region #1 gets all 4 teams in if they can just field a squad of 5. We need a plan that is geographically inclusive so that GHSA will support it but also works to deliver the best teams to our championship event. I 100% believe that being more restrictive at state is hugely in the best interest of our sport. Bravo for stepping in at this critical juncture and trying to make a difference. 1) Raising the bar always delivers better results versus "everyone gets a trophy". Nearly every state who is very good in cross country has significantly more restrictive entry into the championship meet. Georgia is an anomaly / outlier in our inclusive approach. Sometimes less is more. 2) 32 teams at Carrollton is too crowded for championship racing. It is sad every year to watch kids run faster at Ortho and Last Chance just because they have more room to run and don't spend the first mile playing rock 'em sock 'em robots going out way to fast to establish position than they should blowing up in the last mile. 3) In our old system, we had kids participating in the state meet who walked, who sprinted out the 1st 100M and then started jogging and laughing. Those kinds of athletes do a disservice to our sport and are a hazzard on the course. Our new system must weed this out.[/quote] @crossfan2861
A small nit-pick, but if CC were to follow the football type post season pattern Region 1 7A would not autoqualify all four teams. Three would autoqualify, the fourth would then compete for an at large bid along with all other teams in 7A that did not qualify at their Region events. Again, if we were to follow the football playoffs type set up.

crossfan2861 wrote:
@coachac I'm very excited that our newly formed coach's association is working on a plan that will be in the best interests of our sports and athletes. In cross country, for sure with the new alignment, the old model just doesn't make any sense. 4 teams per region in 7A would deliver 67% of all teams to the state meet and region #1 gets all 4 teams in if they can just field a squad of 5.

We need a plan that is geographically inclusive so that GHSA will support it but also works to deliver the best teams to our championship event.

I 100% believe that being more restrictive at state is hugely in the best interest of our sport. Bravo for stepping in at this critical juncture and trying to make a difference.

1) Raising the bar always delivers better results versus "everyone gets a trophy". Nearly every state who is very good in cross country has significantly more restrictive entry into the championship meet. Georgia is an anomaly / outlier in our inclusive approach. Sometimes less is more.
2) 32 teams at Carrollton is too crowded for championship racing. It is sad every year to watch kids run faster at Ortho and Last Chance just because they have more room to run and don't spend the first mile playing rock 'em sock 'em robots going out way to fast to establish position than they should blowing up in the last mile.
3) In our old system, we had kids participating in the state meet who walked, who sprinted out the 1st 100M and then started jogging and laughing. Those kinds of athletes do a disservice to our sport and are a hazzard on the course. Our new system must weed this out.


@crossfan2861
12/03/2015 2:38:28 PM
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Seems like Albany could make the easiest adjustment. They could have both A's, AA, AAA prelims and field events on Thursday, 4A ---7A on Friday and then have the usual Saturday finals. Not sure about Jefferson----that would be a lot of field events in one day and a lot of prelims on the next day if their schedule stayed the same
Seems like Albany could make the easiest adjustment. They could have both A's, AA, AAA prelims and field events on Thursday, 4A ---7A on Friday and then have the usual Saturday finals.

Not sure about Jefferson----that would be a lot of field events in one day and a lot of prelims on the next day if their schedule stayed the same
12/03/2015 3:48:34 PM
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@GoCubs Class A doesn't have prelims, their semis are at the sectional meets. They would do their fields on Friday. Plus there will have to be a rotation so the same classes don't always have a "dead day" Friday. Albany will be taxed by the additional grouping in the field events as they don't have two discus, shot rings or PV pits. They do have extra horizontal pits that they don't use and two HJ pits. tp
@GoCubs Class A doesn't have prelims, their semis are at the sectional meets. They would do their fields on Friday. Plus there will have to be a rotation so the same classes don't always have a "dead day" Friday.
Albany will be taxed by the additional grouping in the field events as they don't have two discus, shot rings or PV pits. They do have extra horizontal pits that they don't use and two HJ pits.
tp
12/03/2015 5:00:17 PM
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@spxcoachrm Careful throwing around that "30A" phrase, don't want to offend anyone that vacations down in the panhandle. They all already believe they own the Gulf Coast.
@spxcoachrm Careful throwing around that "30A" phrase, don't want to offend anyone that vacations down in the panhandle. They all already believe they own the Gulf Coast.
12/04/2015 11:50:14 AM
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Region champs should go to state and then we need a Last Chance race to decide the last 8 sports. 16 Team race for state. The size of the regions are to diverse to have a set number of 4 teams per region.
Region champs should go to state and then we need a Last Chance race to decide the last 8 sports. 16 Team race for state. The size of the regions are to diverse to have a set number of 4 teams per region.
12/04/2015 1:03:43 PM
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@CoachAdams interesting concept. We can do this if we move the season up one week and all of the established meets agree to move forward one week and then you have region the week of last chance and last chance goes to region week. Region champs get an extra week to prepare for state and those that come up short have to battle their way in. This will also end the discussion of slower teams getting in because there are only 8 assigned spots and the rest are earned. For those who are saying this is a bad idea I have one honest question. Has a podium team ever come out of the third place region team? This meet is not a reward trip, it is to decide who is the best team in each class and we have weakened the honor of running at the state meet. I understand the mentality of being excited about just getting there because a very few years back we had that team. But what other sport has the fourth place region team competing in the championship. Just my thoughts.
@CoachAdams
interesting concept. We can do this if we move the season up one week and all of the established meets agree to move forward one week and then you have region the week of last chance and last chance goes to region week. Region champs get an extra week to prepare for state and those that come up short have to battle their way in. This will also end the discussion of slower teams getting in because there are only 8 assigned spots and the rest are earned. For those who are saying this is a bad idea I have one honest question. Has a podium team ever come out of the third place region team? This meet is not a reward trip, it is to decide who is the best team in each class and we have weakened the honor of running at the state meet.
I understand the mentality of being excited about just getting there because a very few years back we had that team. But what other sport has the fourth place region team competing in the championship. Just my thoughts.
12/04/2015 1:11:04 PM
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[quote=cmarett] I have one honest question. Has a podium team ever come out of the third place region team? [/quote] I've had two different teams do it. Girls at Northgate finished 3rd in the Region 4-AAAAA in 2014 and then finished 4th in 5A at State. Boys at LaGrange finished 3rd in Region 5-AAAA in 2012 and then finished 4th at State. I imagine it has happened other times as well. Especially from the so-named "Regions of Death".
cmarett wrote:

I have one honest question. Has a podium team ever come out of the third place region team?


I've had two different teams do it.

Girls at Northgate finished 3rd in the Region 4-AAAAA in 2014 and then finished 4th in 5A at State.

Boys at LaGrange finished 3rd in Region 5-AAAA in 2012 and then finished 4th at State.

I imagine it has happened other times as well. Especially from the so-named "Regions of Death".
12/04/2015 2:16:38 PM
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West Forsyth girls were 3rd in region 6-6A and 4th in state in 2014. Northview girls were 3rd in region 6-6A and 3rd in state in 2014. With the new region, even money bet it happens in 2016. West, South & Milton.
West Forsyth girls were 3rd in region 6-6A and 4th in state in 2014.
Northview girls were 3rd in region 6-6A and 3rd in state in 2014.
With the new region, even money bet it happens in 2016. West, South & Milton.
12/04/2015 3:46:10 PM
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Ok so maybe my point is not such a good one then. If it will not recognizing the best in the state then scrap my plan because this meet is to see who is the best. We cannot leave the best at home!
Ok so maybe my point is not such a good one then. If it will not recognizing the best in the state then scrap my plan because this meet is to see who is the best. We cannot leave the best at home!
12/06/2015 5:57:09 PM
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@CoachAdams We did this in 2004, it was called sectionals and in AAAAA we ran the meet at the Gainesville College/Coach Wood course the week after region.
@CoachAdams
We did this in 2004, it was called sectionals and in AAAAA we ran the meet at the Gainesville College/Coach Wood course the week after region.
12/06/2015 9:33:05 PM
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I'm not sure how ready the GHSA will be to reduce the size of the field, but give it a shot. My gut tells me they will want to stay consistent with the other sports. On the state meet schedule issue, I do have an idea to run the meet faster at Carrollton. I forget which year it was, but there was a year where the course started across the street while construction was happening. Runners crossed the street and entered the main course past the point where there crossover happens now. There also seemed to be a bit more run out time over there helping the big crush at the start a little. Using that configuration would allow a race to start before the previous one had finished. We could definitely start them every 30 minutes. A 35 minute runner would not hold up the meet since the next race wouldn't get to that point until about 38 or so minutes after they started. That gets the meet done in 8 hours. Sunrise and sunset on November 5, 2016 in Carrollton is 8:03 and 6:45. Could start at 8:30 and end with plenty of time. 35 minute centers could start at 8:15 and the last race goes off at 5:00. Not ideal, but an idea.
I'm not sure how ready the GHSA will be to reduce the size of the field, but give it a shot. My gut tells me they will want to stay consistent with the other sports.

On the state meet schedule issue, I do have an idea to run the meet faster at Carrollton. I forget which year it was, but there was a year where the course started across the street while construction was happening. Runners crossed the street and entered the main course past the point where there crossover happens now. There also seemed to be a bit more run out time over there helping the big crush at the start a little. Using that configuration would allow a race to start before the previous one had finished. We could definitely start them every 30 minutes. A 35 minute runner would not hold up the meet since the next race wouldn't get to that point until about 38 or so minutes after they started. That gets the meet done in 8 hours. Sunrise and sunset on November 5, 2016 in Carrollton is 8:03 and 6:45. Could start at 8:30 and end with plenty of time. 35 minute centers could start at 8:15 and the last race goes off at 5:00. Not ideal, but an idea.
12/06/2015 10:05:54 PM
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@LassiterCoach A road crossing?? Carrollton would never permit a road crossing on the state course! One of the big issues with a tighter race schedule is getting people in and out of the Carrollton school/course area with less time.
@LassiterCoach

A road crossing?? Carrollton would never permit a road crossing on the state course!

One of the big issues with a tighter race schedule is getting people in and out of the Carrollton school/course area with less time.

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