It's Time for a Smaller State Meet
10/16/2013 9:04:51 AM
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Not to steal any Coach Wood thunder as that definitely should be the biggest topic of conversation this week, but... Just reading a discussion on another state's site about how they're in favor of reducing their state meet in size from the current 18 teams (per division). 4 divisions so a total of 72 teams. It rekindled some thinking that I believe is shared by a few folks out there that our state meet is entirely too big. What do we have? 32 teams X 5 divisions (AA - AAAAAA) = 160 teams, plus another 40 or so in A public and private? So that's 200+ teams coming to state. Per gender. Besides the obvious crowding issue, that's just not a elite/championship event when you have 32 teams, a good 12-16 of which per division are not even remotely competitive. Please don't convert this conversation into a "let's move the state meet away from Carrollton". Many of the problems we have with Carrollton would be eliminated with a smaller field size. Bigger fields = bigger gate $ for the hosts and GHSA, so that's one of the problems in trimming things back...
Not to steal any Coach Wood thunder as that definitely should be the biggest topic of conversation this week, but...

Just reading a discussion on another state's site about how they're in favor of reducing their state meet in size from the current 18 teams (per division). 4 divisions so a total of 72 teams. It rekindled some thinking that I believe is shared by a few folks out there that our state meet is entirely too big. What do we have? 32 teams X 5 divisions (AA - AAAAAA) = 160 teams, plus another 40 or so in A public and private? So that's 200+ teams coming to state. Per gender.

Besides the obvious crowding issue, that's just not a elite/championship event when you have 32 teams, a good 12-16 of which per division are not even remotely competitive.

Please don't convert this conversation into a "let's move the state meet away from Carrollton". Many of the problems we have with Carrollton would be eliminated with a smaller field size.

Bigger fields = bigger gate $ for the hosts and GHSA, so that's one of the problems in trimming things back...
10/16/2013 9:36:38 AM
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I completely agree, but if you trim down the state meet getting out of the tougher regions such as 7-aaaaaa or 8-aaaaaa will be nearly impossible. If that is the case you are losing possible state contenders. The only fair way to do this is 5 teams move out of each region and move to sectionals.
I completely agree, but if you trim down the state meet getting out of the tougher regions such as 7-aaaaaa or 8-aaaaaa will be nearly impossible. If that is the case you are losing possible state contenders. The only fair way to do this is 5 teams move out of each region and move to sectionals.
10/16/2013 10:39:41 AM
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Here is a link to an article to look at that: [url=http://co.milesplit.com/articles/96355-how-many-schools-are-there-in-your-state-meet#.Ul6kvvl_vD4]http://co.milesplit.com/articles/96355-how-many-schools-are-there-in-your-state-meet#.Ul6kvvl_vD4[/url] As you will see we are one of the more "inclusive" state meets. I do believe that given the course we are asked to run at the State Championships, that the number of runners on the course needs to be reduced. The difficulty of getting out of region will always leave someone out who feels they deserve to "go to state". Rarely will the possible state championship team be one who misses out.
Here is a link to an article to look at that:

http://co.milesplit.com/articles/96355-how-many-schools-are-there-in-your-state-meet#.Ul6kvvl_vD4

As you will see we are one of the more "inclusive" state meets. I do believe that given the course we are asked to run at the State Championships, that the number of runners on the course needs to be reduced.

The difficulty of getting out of region will always leave someone out who feels they deserve to "go to state". Rarely will the possible state championship team be one who misses out.
10/16/2013 10:57:03 AM
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@nameuser Should we base our entire state meet system on two or three regions in the largest classification? If you are third or fourth in your region and you stay home you maybe should run better at regions. I have coached in those regions and Berkmar would have been left at home instead of finishing in the top 15. Was it a great experience? Sure. Did we add anything to the meet with our attendance? Not really. I would say open the individuals up to anyone in the top 10 and not just top 6. If you finish 11th in your region you are not contending for the podium and should have run faster. It is okay for some people to not go to the state meet, for some teams to lose, and for some kids to be upset. There are very important life lessons in those moments. This is why we go to Great American and get crushed most years (we have finished last several times in the Race of Champions). One of my favorite state meets was 2011. Our boys rallied to beat Lakeside Evans, the overwhelming favorites, but we got crushed by Flowery Branch. Our boys were different people and came back even more motivated the following year. We are a better team and they are better people for that loss. Hey Coaches' Association, can you take this one too for us? haha.
@nameuser

Should we base our entire state meet system on two or three regions in the largest classification? If you are third or fourth in your region and you stay home you maybe should run better at regions. I have coached in those regions and Berkmar would have been left at home instead of finishing in the top 15. Was it a great experience? Sure. Did we add anything to the meet with our attendance? Not really.

I would say open the individuals up to anyone in the top 10 and not just top 6. If you finish 11th in your region you are not contending for the podium and should have run faster.

It is okay for some people to not go to the state meet, for some teams to lose, and for some kids to be upset. There are very important life lessons in those moments. This is why we go to Great American and get crushed most years (we have finished last several times in the Race of Champions). One of my favorite state meets was 2011. Our boys rallied to beat Lakeside Evans, the overwhelming favorites, but we got crushed by Flowery Branch. Our boys were different people and came back even more motivated the following year. We are a better team and they are better people for that loss.

Hey Coaches' Association, can you take this one too for us? haha.
10/16/2013 11:19:23 AM
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One of the things some states do is combined classifications. 6A has 63 schools, 32 run at states (51%) 5A has 75 schools, 32 run at states. (43%) 4A has 77 schools, 32 run at states. (42%) 3A has 65 schools, 30 run at states. (46%) 2A has 66 schools, basically 30 run at states. (45%) Some states would combined the divisions for certain sports, like cross country. Having come from PA, I can compare it to that state in particular that normally has four classifications, for years, cross country got by with two. They recently switched to 3 classifications for cross country. They have much larger "districts" than what we have at regionals. If you drop the number of teams and don't change anything else though, I'd recommend three. If you drop it to two teams, I'd recommend an increase in number of individuals qualifying from each region from top 6 to top 10.
One of the things some states do is combined classifications.

6A has 63 schools, 32 run at states (51%)
5A has 75 schools, 32 run at states. (43%)
4A has 77 schools, 32 run at states. (42%)
3A has 65 schools, 30 run at states. (46%)
2A has 66 schools, basically 30 run at states. (45%)

Some states would combined the divisions for certain sports, like cross country. Having come from PA, I can compare it to that state in particular that normally has four classifications, for years, cross country got by with two. They recently switched to 3 classifications for cross country. They have much larger "districts" than what we have at regionals.

If you drop the number of teams and don't change anything else though, I'd recommend three. If you drop it to two teams, I'd recommend an increase in number of individuals qualifying from each region from top 6 to top 10.
10/16/2013 11:27:59 AM
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@BlackJack31 Great resource! I took the liberty of adding up totals by state, and here they are: ST / B / G / T GA / 186 / 180 / 366 LA / 140 / 109 / 249 NJ / 116 / 111 / 227 MI / 110 / 108 / 218 FL / 96 / 96 / 192 MS / 96 / 85 / 181 CO / 91 / 87 / 178 AZ / 90 / 75 / 165 KY / 84 / 78 / 162 SC / 79 / 74 / 153 MD / 83 / 69 / 152 WA / 80 / 72 / 152 IL / 75 / 75 / 150 OK / 71 / 72 / 143 KS / 71 / 69 / 140 UT / 72 / 65 / 137 AL / 69 / 67 / 136 AR / 73 / 62 / 135 TN / 68 / 65 / 133 NC / 64 / 64 / 128 MO / 64 / 62 / 126 NM / 66 / 58 / 124 MT / 69 / 53 / 122 NH / 66 / 55 / 121 IA / 60 / 60 / 120 TX / 60 / 60 / 120 PA / 57 / 56 / 113 OR / 52 / 52 / 104 WI / 52 / 52 / 104 NE / 51 / 51 / 102 SD / 50 / 47 / 97 ID / 50 / 46 / 96 OH / 48 / 48 / 96 VA / 48 / 48 / 96 DE / 43 / 41 / 84 NY / 41 / 41 / 82 ME / 44 / 36 / 80 MA / 38 / 38 / 76 ND / 38 / 37 / 75 VT / 41 / 34 / 75 MN / 32 / 32 / 64 WY / 35 / 29 / 64 WV / 26 / 23 / 49 IN / 24 / 24 / 48 AK / 22 / 21 / 43 CT / 20 / 22 / 42 NV / 21 / 21 / 42 HI / 18 / 20 / 38 RI / 18 / 18 / 36 CA / ? / ? / ?
@BlackJack31 Great resource! I took the liberty of adding up totals by state, and here they are:

ST / B / G / T
GA / 186 / 180 / 366
LA / 140 / 109 / 249
NJ / 116 / 111 / 227
MI / 110 / 108 / 218
FL / 96 / 96 / 192
MS / 96 / 85 / 181
CO / 91 / 87 / 178
AZ / 90 / 75 / 165
KY / 84 / 78 / 162
SC / 79 / 74 / 153
MD / 83 / 69 / 152
WA / 80 / 72 / 152
IL / 75 / 75 / 150
OK / 71 / 72 / 143
KS / 71 / 69 / 140
UT / 72 / 65 / 137
AL / 69 / 67 / 136
AR / 73 / 62 / 135
TN / 68 / 65 / 133
NC / 64 / 64 / 128
MO / 64 / 62 / 126
NM / 66 / 58 / 124
MT / 69 / 53 / 122
NH / 66 / 55 / 121
IA / 60 / 60 / 120
TX / 60 / 60 / 120
PA / 57 / 56 / 113
OR / 52 / 52 / 104
WI / 52 / 52 / 104
NE / 51 / 51 / 102
SD / 50 / 47 / 97
ID / 50 / 46 / 96
OH / 48 / 48 / 96
VA / 48 / 48 / 96
DE / 43 / 41 / 84
NY / 41 / 41 / 82
ME / 44 / 36 / 80
MA / 38 / 38 / 76
ND / 38 / 37 / 75
VT / 41 / 34 / 75
MN / 32 / 32 / 64
WY / 35 / 29 / 64
WV / 26 / 23 / 49
IN / 24 / 24 / 48
AK / 22 / 21 / 43
CT / 20 / 22 / 42
NV / 21 / 21 / 42
HI / 18 / 20 / 38
RI / 18 / 18 / 36
CA / ? / ? / ?
10/16/2013 11:32:46 AM
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@MaristXCcoach Well said. I could not agree more about the life lessons learned in moments of loss or disappointment. A few years ago Jim Ryun spoke at a church in Powder Springs. He discussed getting cut from the baseball and basketball teams and how those disappointing moments changed his life in such a positive manner. We live in a society in which every kid gets a trophy or an award and it is extremely detrimental to both the kids and the future of our society as a whole. However, I do agree with the other posters in that the sectional meet is the best option as there are 3rd and 4th place teams in some regions that are much better than the 1st place team in another region. The goal is to ensure that we have the best teams toeing the line at the state meet.
@MaristXCcoach

Well said. I could not agree more about the life lessons learned in moments of loss or disappointment. A few years ago Jim Ryun spoke at a church in Powder Springs. He discussed getting cut from the baseball and basketball teams and how those disappointing moments changed his life in such a positive manner. We live in a society in which every kid gets a trophy or an award and it is extremely detrimental to both the kids and the future of our society as a whole.

However, I do agree with the other posters in that the sectional meet is the best option as there are 3rd and 4th place teams in some regions that are much better than the 1st place team in another region. The goal is to ensure that we have the best teams toeing the line at the state meet.
10/16/2013 11:39:25 AM
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@MaristXCcoach That sounds good also.
@MaristXCcoach That sounds good also.
10/16/2013 12:19:07 PM
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@MaristXCcoach really disappointed in your reponse. Didn't take the time to verify this, but I do believe the a 3rd place team in 7 6a beat their regionsl counterparts (who placed higher at region) at State because they had better hill runners. Plus in most years, the 3rd and 4th place teams in this region are better than the 2nd place team in region 1. Is it right to let the inferior team go to state because they are in a less competitive region? A sectional for 6a woukd be a better answer but probably not needed at lower classes with less depth.
@MaristXCcoach really disappointed in your reponse. Didn't take the time to verify this, but I do believe the a 3rd place team in 7 6a beat their regionsl counterparts (who placed higher at region) at State because they had better hill runners. Plus in most years, the 3rd and 4th place teams in this region are better than the 2nd place team in region 1. Is it right to let the inferior team go to state because they are in a less competitive region? A sectional for 6a woukd be a better answer but probably not needed at lower classes with less depth.
10/16/2013 12:22:22 PM
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The answer is not eliminating those 3rd and 4th place region teams that are actually competitive and can affect the state meet...instead it's creating a higher standard that reduces the field at the bottom. We're just too inclusive, plain and simple. The only way that can happen is through Sectionals (or a selection committee, but chances of that are 0%).
The answer is not eliminating those 3rd and 4th place region teams that are actually competitive and can affect the state meet...instead it's creating a higher standard that reduces the field at the bottom. We're just too inclusive, plain and simple. The only way that can happen is through Sectionals (or a selection committee, but chances of that are 0%).
10/16/2013 12:41:28 PM
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We do not need regions for cross country. We need regions for football and other head to head sports to limit travel and so that the regular season decides something. In cross country, we compete all year in races which have 20+ teams, then decide who goes to state by dividing up into regions of roughly 8 (or sometimes 4 or less!!!) and holding smaller races. Because there are so many very small groups, there will naturally be significant variation in quality within those small groups. Hold two sectionals per class with 30 teams each and let the top 10 teams and those in the top 10 advance to a 20-team state meet. Or have 3 sectionals with 7 teams advancing from each. If you want to call yourself a region champ, compare yourself to the other teams in your school's football region and see who scored the best. We do not need regions for cross country.
We do not need regions for cross country.

We need regions for football and other head to head sports to limit travel and so that the regular season decides something. In cross country, we compete all year in races which have 20+ teams, then decide who goes to state by dividing up into regions of roughly 8 (or sometimes 4 or less!!!) and holding smaller races. Because there are so many very small groups, there will naturally be significant variation in quality within those small groups. Hold two sectionals per class with 30 teams each and let the top 10 teams and those in the top 10 advance to a 20-team state meet. Or have 3 sectionals with 7 teams advancing from each.

If you want to call yourself a region champ, compare yourself to the other teams in your school's football region and see who scored the best.

We do not need regions for cross country.
10/16/2013 12:47:24 PM
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@MaristXCcoach anothe counter to your "should hace run better" comment, in class 6a in the girls side FOUR of the top 15 teams are from region 7.
@MaristXCcoach anothe counter to your "should hace run better" comment, in class 6a in the girls side FOUR of the top 15 teams are from region 7.
10/16/2013 12:54:33 PM
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Qualifying standards might work, but sectionals would not. Most of the XC talent is located in certain regions in Georgia. Nothing says that more than if you rank regions in each classification like an XC meet (I used the state meet last year for girls). In 6A, Region 5 wins (28 points), Region 7 (31 points), Region 6 (44), Region 4 (59), Region 8 (60), Region 1 (80), Region 3 (111), and finally Region 2 (116). Obviously, the regions are stacked to the north. Only taking two from each region would have eliminated Norcross (7th), Roswell (10th), Etowah (12th), and Centennial (13th) (forgive me, I did not go look at the region races, so an even higher placer might have been eliminated at region). Quite a few of these names are competing for the state title this year and gained valuable experience running in it last year. Outside of Lowndes, none of the region 1, 2, or 3 schools finished in the top 20. The same holds true at 5A, albeit closer along the top. Region 4 (34), Region 5 (46), Region 6 (47), Region 8 (54), Region 7 (63), Region 2 (68), Region 3 (98), and Region 1 (118). Being eliminated by only taking 2 from each region: Starr's Mill (10th), Allatoona (12th), Northgate (13th), and Rome (14th). Again, this assumes that you finished at state in the same order you finished in region (a slightly flawed assumption).
Qualifying standards might work, but sectionals would not. Most of the XC talent is located in certain regions in Georgia. Nothing says that more than if you rank regions in each classification like an XC meet (I used the state meet last year for girls). In 6A, Region 5 wins (28 points), Region 7 (31 points), Region 6 (44), Region 4 (59), Region 8 (60), Region 1 (80), Region 3 (111), and finally Region 2 (116). Obviously, the regions are stacked to the north. Only taking two from each region would have eliminated Norcross (7th), Roswell (10th), Etowah (12th), and Centennial (13th) (forgive me, I did not go look at the region races, so an even higher placer might have been eliminated at region). Quite a few of these names are competing for the state title this year and gained valuable experience running in it last year. Outside of Lowndes, none of the region 1, 2, or 3 schools finished in the top 20. The same holds true at 5A, albeit closer along the top. Region 4 (34), Region 5 (46), Region 6 (47), Region 8 (54), Region 7 (63), Region 2 (68), Region 3 (98), and Region 1 (118). Being eliminated by only taking 2 from each region: Starr's Mill (10th), Allatoona (12th), Northgate (13th), and Rome (14th). Again, this assumes that you finished at state in the same order you finished in region (a slightly flawed assumption).
10/16/2013 12:55:50 PM
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@Bobcat79 @excelorator Bobcat, you can be disappointed but if a team loses in the first, second, third or fourth round of playoffs in all other sports they don't move on. Are they the best team in the state? Maybe, but they lost and the following year they will prep better for their region meet. Here is the truth though - I have posted countless times on the messageboard in the past ten years arguing against the need for regions all together and supporting areas, sectionals or any other host of options have gone nowhere. I have 12 teams in our region and only four fielded full cross country teams last seasons. We should all be competing in areas. We should have a three race playoff system as well that includes a sectionals. Some folks really like regions and they tend to be in highly competitive 6A regions that haven't changed very often; the rest of us have been in 3-4 different region make ups in the past 8 years. However, regions are NOT going away and sectionals was voted down. The only option is to reduce the number of teams going to state. Does this mean the 4th best team in 6A stays home? Possibly. Does that effect 5A, 4A, 3A, 2A? Nope. How about the rest of 6A? Nope. It stinks but making an omelette requires breaking some eggs. I feel a reduced field at state is worthwhile and unfortunately 6A is holding all the eggs.
@Bobcat79
@excelorator

Bobcat, you can be disappointed but if a team loses in the first, second, third or fourth round of playoffs in all other sports they don't move on. Are they the best team in the state? Maybe, but they lost and the following year they will prep better for their region meet.

Here is the truth though - I have posted countless times on the messageboard in the past ten years arguing against the need for regions all together and supporting areas, sectionals or any other host of options have gone nowhere. I have 12 teams in our region and only four fielded full cross country teams last seasons. We should all be competing in areas. We should have a three race playoff system as well that includes a sectionals. Some folks really like regions and they tend to be in highly competitive 6A regions that haven't changed very often; the rest of us have been in 3-4 different region make ups in the past 8 years.

However, regions are NOT going away and sectionals was voted down. The only option is to reduce the number of teams going to state. Does this mean the 4th best team in 6A stays home? Possibly. Does that effect 5A, 4A, 3A, 2A? Nope. How about the rest of 6A? Nope. It stinks but making an omelette requires breaking some eggs. I feel a reduced field at state is worthwhile and unfortunately 6A is holding all the eggs.
10/16/2013 1:01:59 PM
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@Pre1962 I agree 100%, but sectionals didn't pass so we have to think differently now.
@Pre1962

I agree 100%, but sectionals didn't pass so we have to think differently now.
10/16/2013 1:04:37 PM
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As another follow up, I have no numbers on this, but what is the highest a 4th place region team has finished in a state meet? I can't imagine it is higher than 5th.
As another follow up, I have no numbers on this, but what is the highest a 4th place region team has finished in a state meet? I can't imagine it is higher than 5th.
10/16/2013 1:07:33 PM
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@MaristXCcoach My team at Dacula in 2002 (first year of sectionals) finished 4th at region and 3rd at state. On top of that, if I remember correctly, North Gwinnett had the true heartbreak that year. They were 5th at region after beating us all year long. Brian Langman was also a shoe in for top 10 at state. He finished 7th at Region.
@MaristXCcoach

My team at Dacula in 2002 (first year of sectionals) finished 4th at region and 3rd at state. On top of that, if I remember correctly, North Gwinnett had the true heartbreak that year. They were 5th at region after beating us all year long. Brian Langman was also a shoe in for top 10 at state. He finished 7th at Region.
10/16/2013 1:12:55 PM
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Last year on the boys' side, Norcross was 3rd in its region and 4th in the state. Milton was 3rd in its region and 6th in the state. Wheeler was 4th in its region and 8th in the state. Collins Hill was 4th in its region and 9th in the state. Individually, the #3, #7 and #14 finishers (who all ran sub-17:00; I think a total of 27 boys managed to do that all day) all finished outside the top 6 in their region and were on teams that finished 3rd or 4th in their region. I would argue that those teams and individuals all deserved to be there.
Last year on the boys' side, Norcross was 3rd in its region and 4th in the state.
Milton was 3rd in its region and 6th in the state.
Wheeler was 4th in its region and 8th in the state.
Collins Hill was 4th in its region and 9th in the state.

Individually, the #3, #7 and #14 finishers (who all ran sub-17:00; I think a total of 27 boys managed to do that all day) all finished outside the top 6 in their region and were on teams that finished 3rd or 4th in their region.

I would argue that those teams and individuals all deserved to be there.
10/16/2013 2:14:04 PM
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I forgot, what was the rationale for not having sectionals?
I forgot, what was the rationale for not having sectionals?
10/16/2013 2:18:44 PM
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@spxcoachrm @excelorator We do have two 6A examples (Dacula was in the largest class at that time I think), but any from other classes? I can't think of any. Are there any other sports than track and cross country where we talk about teams and individuals "deserving" and not earning their spots? I am sure there were years that Marist's football team deserved to be in the state finals but we kept playing Tucker in the quarterfinals...Our girls basketball was ranked top 10 in the state and sat at home after losing to SWD, Miller Grove, Tucker, etc.... I am confident that the 6th team overall in a class or the 13th individual "deserves" to be there because they have worked hard but they are not determining the state champion which is ultimately why we hold the meet or am I way off base? Do they hold a basketball or football game to determine who was 8th? We are really only talking about 1-3 teams a year and a handful of individuals that would be affected each season. Should the NCAA have 128 teams in its basketball tournament? Should the #4 seed get a by into the 3rd round because they deserve it? Sometimes it really stinks being in a tough region. I have watched 1:54 8oys, sub 9:40 guys, sub 5:15 girls stay home in our old 6-AAAA region or my old Gwinnett region during track. Some of them were 3rd in the state and it stinks. We passed sectionals and made it better for future runners. In cross we had sectionals, got rid of it, and then voted it down again. We have had time standards and gotten rid of them. What can we try now? It is down to either areas or fewer teams out of region or the status quo. I vote for areas but am satisfied with fewer teams from region. Outside of one 3A region and three 6A regions, how often do regions hold any surprises or outcomes different than expected or that alter the make up of the state meet? Not many. At this point, why not do away with regions altogether, invite everyone and run at Fox Hall or Nash Farms as they could handle the numbers. I bet we would still have only 35-40 teams show up in most classes. I would support this as Coach Robinson and Coach Spinks do put on a good meets and college coaches could see our kids fly in the cool November air. And now for the pessimist in me: nothing is going to change because we are just talking about this on a message board. This is probably the fifth time I have been suckered into this conversation hahaha. I never learn my lesson! I look foward to my sixth rant in 2014.
@spxcoachrm
@excelorator

We do have two 6A examples (Dacula was in the largest class at that time I think), but any from other classes? I can't think of any.

Are there any other sports than track and cross country where we talk about teams and individuals "deserving" and not earning their spots? I am sure there were years that Marist's football team deserved to be in the state finals but we kept playing Tucker in the quarterfinals...Our girls basketball was ranked top 10 in the state and sat at home after losing to SWD, Miller Grove, Tucker, etc....

I am confident that the 6th team overall in a class or the 13th individual "deserves" to be there because they have worked hard but they are not determining the state champion which is ultimately why we hold the meet or am I way off base? Do they hold a basketball or football game to determine who was 8th? We are really only talking about 1-3 teams a year and a handful of individuals that would be affected each season.

Should the NCAA have 128 teams in its basketball tournament? Should the #4 seed get a by into the 3rd round because they deserve it? Sometimes it really stinks being in a tough region. I have watched 1:54 8oys, sub 9:40 guys, sub 5:15 girls stay home in our old 6-AAAA region or my old Gwinnett region during track. Some of them were 3rd in the state and it stinks. We passed sectionals and made it better for future runners. In cross we had sectionals, got rid of it, and then voted it down again. We have had time standards and gotten rid of them. What can we try now? It is down to either areas or fewer teams out of region or the status quo. I vote for areas but am satisfied with fewer teams from region.

Outside of one 3A region and three 6A regions, how often do regions hold any surprises or outcomes different than expected or that alter the make up of the state meet? Not many.

At this point, why not do away with regions altogether, invite everyone and run at Fox Hall or Nash Farms as they could handle the numbers. I bet we would still have only 35-40 teams show up in most classes. I would support this as Coach Robinson and Coach Spinks do put on a good meets and college coaches could see our kids fly in the cool November air.

And now for the pessimist in me: nothing is going to change because we are just talking about this on a message board. This is probably the fifth time I have been suckered into this conversation hahaha. I never learn my lesson! I look foward to my sixth rant in 2014.

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